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Deus Ex Machina
10-25-2007, 12:23 PM
I've been looking up info on trout beads, and they seem pretty effective. Has anyone ever tried them? they're huge in alaska and BC, and people in the great lakes region are starting to use them. I plan on using them while using C&D. Has anyone had any experience with this technique? Does it work? They say steelhead and trout love them.

2PawsRiver
10-25-2007, 12:48 PM
I bought them and used them in Alaska and they work quite well. I also cem up with my own variation that worked quite well also. I used glass beads and tied them to a hook fishing them as a fly.

Troutbeads.com has a real good selection.

Heres an example............if it works.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z99/2PawsRiver/glasseggbead.jpg

TheSteelheadBum
10-25-2007, 12:52 PM
By using them the way they are designed to be used you are essentially tightlining the fish as they bite the egg and the hook is still hanging outside of the mouth. You feel pressure, set the hook, and the hook goes into the outside of their mouth. This keeps the hook from going into their gills, but can lead to hooks in the eyes. It has it's good points, but for the most part is a pretty unethical practice...

phishin incident
10-25-2007, 12:57 PM
Well i was at the new cabelas yesterday in my area and in the bargin cave was the P-line trout bead kit, i looked at it then left it was 50% off so that was great. Then while in anothe department i got a call from a friend from Co (our head guide in AK) he said that i would have to start my 6 pack preparations now, that i was goign to take the classes in May to guide the Fry-Frenzy on the Kvijack, which is an intercoastal river. I then turned around and went and got that bead kit. I know they use them for Bows in AK, some people dont like them say it just another method of lining fish, i really dont see it as that. I fail to see how they are flies but thats anothe story... They worl like a son-o-B, they hork regular egg flies thats why they switched to beads that and they are perfect imitations of eggs. Hooking fish on the outside of the mouth is iffy but they work, i am goign to tray them here soon for Chrome and Sports behind the nasty kings on the redds will report soon...

That P-line kit is sweet its liek 20$ i got it for 11 but it come with 800 beads in 2 sizes and i think 12 colors pretty much what you need to get started though

Jordan

Check out ALASKACLEARWATERLODGE.COM
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phishin incident
10-25-2007, 01:20 PM
Yes, you could argue all day if they are unethical or not....
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Deus Ex Machina
10-25-2007, 02:12 PM
if i used them in the flies only section, would people yell at me you think?

Steeldrifter
10-25-2007, 03:00 PM
They are illegal in fly only water.

Gunnar
10-25-2007, 03:40 PM
I can't say that they make me feel warm and fuzzy.
I won't be buying any.

Deus Ex Machina
10-25-2007, 05:38 PM
wow, forget that. Im not going to use them.

ChromerRoamer
10-25-2007, 05:47 PM
If a glass (bead) egg is illegal in the fly water, one would have to logically assume that a glue egg is illegal as well? Neither one is a traditonal "fly" made out of fur and feathers. Come to think of it, a glo-bug egg is just made out of puffed out plastic threads but those seem to be legal. Where does the state draw the line on what's a "fly" for use in the flies-only zone?

Steeldrifter
10-25-2007, 06:01 PM
Yupp glue eggs are also illegal in fly only water.

Glo bugs are actually made out of a material that is for fly tying, there's no plastic involved in a glo bug. The deffinition of a fly is not really clearly defined by the DNR. So this is one of those thing's where it would most likely be up to the C.O to determine wether of not what your useing is legally a "fly" or not, but by commonly accepted standards bead's and glue eggs won't fall under the fly catagory by a C.O's standards.

JFulgenzi
10-25-2007, 06:56 PM
If you added some veil, its no differnt then a copper john or any other fly that uses beads. I'm not saying its right but if the bead was just one step in the process of the fly. You could use the bead in egg sucking leach pattern for sure.

Fissionary
10-25-2007, 07:13 PM
By using them the way they are designed to be used you are essentially tightlining the fish as they bite the egg and the hook is still hanging outside of the mouth. You feel pressure, set the hook, and the hook goes into the outside of their mouth. This keeps the hook from going into their gills, but can lead to hooks in the eyes. It has it's good points, but for the most part is a pretty unethical practice...

The technique as described here would technically be illegal in Michigan, under the definition of snagging:

"Snagging means attempting to take fish in a manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily in its mouth. It is unlawful to snag fish."

Of course, a CO wouldn't necessarily enforce it this way, but if he did you would be in trouble. A bead tied to the hook would be legal, of course. (Outside the flies-only section, at least.)

2PawsRiver
10-25-2007, 07:37 PM
Unless I am wrong.......and I could be, I don't think the beads tied to the hook would be illegal in flys only water. They were legal in Alaka's flys only water.

Deus Ex Machina
10-25-2007, 09:54 PM
could I thread one or two beads in front of a streamer? so it looks like a egg-sucking pattern?

TheSteelheadBum
10-25-2007, 10:03 PM
could I thread one or two beads in front of a streamer? so it looks like a egg-sucking pattern?

Why wouldn't you just incorporate the eggs onto the fly itself by using McFly foam or Otter's Soft eggs?

2PawsRiver
10-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Well I give up. I have been trying to find something that defines a "Fly" or gives clarification on what gear can be used on Flys only Water.........anybody know where it is at.:confused:

TheSteelheadBum
10-25-2007, 10:21 PM
Well I give up. I have been trying to find something that defines a "Fly" or gives clarification on what gear can be used on Flys only Water.........anybody know where it is at.:confused:

The sign on the side of the river at fishermans trail states it has to be made of a fly tying material. It's been a while since I read it, but it clarifies exactly what they mean by "material". Other than that I have no idea where to find the info...

alexsalmon
10-25-2007, 10:24 PM
Just another gray area in MI's fishing rules.:rolleyes:

Dallas
10-26-2007, 12:13 AM
The bead set up they use in AK is where they peg the bead with a tooth pick above the hook about 2-3 inches. Which would be illegal in the flies only section but not in the other sections. Lining is illegal in any section.

Take care,

Dallas

Fissionary
10-26-2007, 08:52 AM
The bead set up they use in AK is where they peg the bead with a tooth pick above the hook about 2-3 inches. Which would be illegal in the flies only section but not in the other sections. Lining is illegal in any section.

Take care,

Dallas

If the bead is 2-3 inches above the hook, the fish is not taking the hook voluntary in its mouth; thus, it looks to me like according to the book, it's technically snagging, even if the fish attacks the bead. I'm not saying it would or should be interpreted that way; I'm just quoting the book.

By the way, 2Paws, I love the look of those beads you've tied to the hook. With all the colors available in the beads, you must have a nice looking assortment ready to go.

julius
10-27-2007, 03:49 PM
there is gray area because its up to the dnr officer to decide wheather or not it is a fly. if you're fishing legally in the flies only with a bead egg i really doubt you're going to get a ticket.

Dallas
10-29-2007, 12:35 AM
I'm goining to call them today and get an answer. :D

ChromeKid
10-29-2007, 09:35 AM
A buddy of mine used them in Ohio for steelies a couple springs ago. I heard about them being used in Alaska for big 'bows but not in the Great Lakes. I'm now a firm believer after watching one of the most comical/vicious takes from a steelie I've ever seen :D .

JFulgenzi
10-29-2007, 01:46 PM
Good luck trying to talk to someone at the DNR! I have been calling to see about a few other issues and i keep getting a message. Plus no one ever calls me back!:mad:

TheSteelheadBum
10-29-2007, 02:57 PM
Good luck trying to talk to someone at the DNR! I have been calling to see about a few other issues and i keep getting a message. Plus no one ever calls me back!:mad:

E-Mail Jay Wesley at the Michigan DNR. He will answer your questions.

His e-mail is: wesleyjk@michigan.gov

If he doesn't get back to you let me know and I will get the answers to your questions for you.

Cheers,

Kory

2bit
10-29-2007, 08:17 PM
The artificial lure definition in the trout and salmon guide uses the word plastic...not rubber. There are chemical differences. So, using rubber eggs (unscented) would be permitted in the fly water as per the DNR posted regs. Granted it's splitting hairs...but I would have no problem using otter-eggs or chew balls in the fly water. Not saying I will, but could if wanted to. Now if you use plastic beads you're hosed! Really, anything other than plastic should be ok.

The artificial fly definition is essentially useless.

Artificial Fly means any commonly accepted single hook wet and dry flies, streamers, and nymphs without spinner, spoon, scoop, lip or any other fishing lure or bait attached. The fly or leader may be weighted but no weight shall be attached to the fly or to the terminal tackle in a manner that allows the weight to be suspended from or below the hook.

Having said that, I can't say with certainty that a CO will accept this. I just don't see how a judge wouldn't. Anyone buying this?:rolleyes:
2bit

Deus Ex Machina
10-29-2007, 09:28 PM
I dont think the material matters as much, simply because the hook is still being "forced" into the side of the fish's mouth. If you were to tie a glo bug on an egg hook, then cut the bend off and peg it a couple inches above a bare hook, you would still be "lining" the fish. Is dynamite allowed in the flies only water? ;)

ianmccririe
10-30-2007, 02:10 PM
When my dad and I went to Alaska they said the idea was not to hook trout in the gills. Pegging the bead above the hook was intended to increase the survival rate of the released fish, not to snag them. I would have to disagree with those of you who think that this method of fishing is unethical. If someone wanted to straight snag fish they would just bring out the treble hooks and 50 pound line. Pegging beads up from the hook with the intention of hooking only fish that ďtake the baitĒ is not unethical. The practice was never meant as a form of snagging. To me it seems like a practice meant to help fish, I have caught trout on egg flies that hooked them way down in their throat. I think if the practice of pegging beads above the hook could help the survival of these fish it worth doing. I understand that it is probably not legal in the fly water and I donít use trout beads anyway. Just my thoughts please donít take this as trying to start a fight.

2bit
10-30-2007, 03:57 PM
Is dynamite allowed in the flies only water? ;)

You never know!

http://philippines.usaid.gov/images/mindanao_nature.jpg:eek:

Neeso1aj
10-30-2007, 05:24 PM
why cant you use the double salmon hooks?? but you can run a dropper fly

phishin incident
10-30-2007, 07:30 PM
Why would you want to?
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Deus Ex Machina
10-30-2007, 10:18 PM
haha sweet pic. Very effective.

Neeso1aj
10-30-2007, 11:15 PM
why do you want to run trebles on a crank bait?????

phishin incident
10-31-2007, 08:37 AM
They come from the factory that way?
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Neeso1aj
10-31-2007, 11:53 AM
double salmon hooks come from the factory that way too

phishin incident
10-31-2007, 02:39 PM
I?m pretty sure they aren?t allowed for a reason, that being RIPPING salmon, there is no need for them at all, just because they are seen as traditional. You can?t get a good enough hook-set with a single hook? Maybe you should look into some sharper hooks (you know im selling some) If your going to use a double hook, heck why stop there trebles are a lot cheaper than traditional double hooks, why hasn?t some one thought of tying flies on trebles? Oh wait!

Tight Lines
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Neeso1aj
10-31-2007, 07:02 PM
I was just wondering becasue I have a bunch of flies that my grandfather gave me that are the traditional double hooks. I have seen the double hooks and bought some because I dont want to wreck the ones from the 70's. I under stand the ripping and all that but I was wanting to cast some of the traditional double hooks that my grandfather casted in his day.

Dallas
11-01-2007, 02:08 PM
I got to talk to a DNR biologist at the office but I'm still waiting for a return call from a field officer.

take care,

Dallas

2bit
11-01-2007, 11:09 PM
I definitely would like to hear what he has to say. Thanks.
2bit

2PawsRiver
11-03-2007, 12:40 AM
why hasnít some one thought of tying flies on trebles? Oh wait!


I tied some flashy streamers on Trebles a few years ago........I figured one hook was good three hooks was better.:) then I got to thinking about that treble hook flying about, back and forth and decided when it comes to getting smacked in the head with a hook, the fewer the better:D

Deus Ex Machina
11-08-2007, 10:18 AM
Thanks alot for the feedback everyone.

Jay@BBT
11-27-2007, 10:11 AM
" Hooks must be baited or attached to an artificial bait" I pulled this from the regulations. Unless you could prove to an officer that the hook is "Attached " to your pegged bead and you can accept a ticket without an argument you may want to forget about the pegged bead trick in michigan.

bullsprig1100
11-27-2007, 10:33 AM
If you are saying that tying a hook to thread or mono, above or below a bait is not attaching it according to the regulations, then would the articulated flies, i.e Circus Peanut, be considered illegal? The hook section of the fly is attached to the front section of the fly via thread or mono..... Just a thought.